This used to be me: whenever something broke, I went looking for a tool

Last year I was running a paid community and retention was bad. My first instinct? Maybe add a survey tool. Maybe build a points system. Maybe tweak the welcome email sequence.

Then my friend Xiaolin (she runs an independent nutrition consultancy in Shanghai) asked me point-blank: "Have you actually called any of the members who left and asked them why?"

I froze. No. Not once.

I'd spent two weeks researching tools and never spent twenty minutes actually listening to a person.

Here's the counter-intuitive point this piece is making

The original piece is by Ashley, who has shipped multiple SaaS products. She noticed a pattern: the more technical someone 's background, the more likely they are to fall into the trap of substituting systems for conversation. They'll set up NPS scores (automated customer-satisfaction surveys), build data dashboards, A/B test button colors — but they won't pick up the phone or send a voice message.

Her take: this isn't an efficiency problem, it's an avoidance problem. Because a real conversation means you might hear answers you don't want to hear.

I think this hits just as hard for non-developer founders. I know a brand designer and freelancer named Ach eng, based in Hangzhou. He told me he'd built this elaborate client-intake form, and yet every time a client filled it out he still couldn't figure out what aesthetic they actually wanted. Eventually he switched to: a 30-minute video call before the first draft. Conversion and satisfaction both went up. The form got demoted to a backup.

It's not that tools are bad. It's that the parts of a conversation no tool can capture — the tone , the pause, the "actually, what I really think is …" — those are the parts that matter most.

How to try this today — cost is basically zero

This doesn't cost money and doesn't require learning any software.

  • Cost: $0
  • Time: Today , find one client or user you've worked with recently and send them a voice message — something like "Hey, how have things been? I'd love to just chat for 5 minutes, no agenda"
  • Technical barrier: None. If you can send a WhatsApp or WeChat voice message, you're set
  • First step: Open your messaging app, find someone you exchanged messages with last week or last month, and hit record

If you want a bit more structure, after the call jot down two or three things they said in your phone's notes app — no need to write a report, just enough to hold the impression . I use the default notes app on my phone. That's all I need.

Not everyone needs to do this right now. If you don't have a single client yet, just go talk to people about your idea — that 's enough for now, don't overthink it.

Advice by stage

If you're just starting out with no paying clients yet: I'd make " talk to a real person" a weekly non-negotiable. Not to sell anything — just to listen. What are they working on? What's frustrating them? You 'll find direction faster than any survey will give you.

If you already have 1 –2 clients: After your next delivery, proactively schedule an informal 15-minute debrief. Ask them what felt smooth and what felt a little off. You'll hear things that go beyond the deliverable itself — and those things are what give you the confidence to charge more next time.

If you're scaling and starting to work with a team or contractors: This habit matters even more — because you'll increasingly rely on reports and data rather than direct perception. I'd protect at least one slot a month where you personally talk to an end user or client, even if it's just one person, one conversation, twenty minutes. Don't let the layers between you and the real signal get too thick.